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Noisey’s Back & Forth series returns with their most accomplished duo yet–Russell Simmons and Rick Rubin. In part one, the music industry legends discuss the humble beginnings of Def Jam Records on the 30th anniversary of the label’s founding.

Now in their 50s, Simmons and Rubin can recollect on the golden age of their brainchild with a wiser outlook. One of the more memorable moments came when the two conversed about the story behind LL Cool J’s “Radio.”

“I think him writing a song called ‘Radio’ was your idea,” Rubin said to Simmons. “What I feel like you said was, ‘If you write a song talking about the radio, they’re more likely to play it.'”

Don’t worry. We won’t spoil any more anecdotes. For more, peep the clip below.

Photo: YouTube